Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

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NadimMayar
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 1:16 pm

Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by NadimMayar » Thu May 25, 2017 1:38 pm

First of all, the forum is a great idea. A good way to distinguish yourself from the others.

My question:
I ordered a genuine E3D V6 a few weeks back. I installed it as direct drive on my wanhao I3. It works great with PETG but sometimes jams with PLA. The jam sometimes fixes itself after a few skipped steps, but not always.

I use basic PLA settings in slicthreer.
0.2 mm Layer Height
50 mm/s print speed(30mm/s external perimeters)
1 mm retraction @35mm/s
temp 200-210 C

I tried to play a bit with the settings to see if it helps, but doesn't really.

when the jams doesn't fix itself, it's also nearly impossible to push the filament through manually. I have to pull it out first and load it back to fix the jam.

My suspicion is that the filament melts a bit on the thin part of the heatbreak between the hot end and cold end and that's what causes the jam. But I'm not sure

This is what the filament looks like after I pull it out:

Image

I'm using the stock fan and fan shroud for the heatsink, which seems to work fine. The heatsink never gets hot during the print.

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PartTimeRonin
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Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by PartTimeRonin » Thu May 25, 2017 2:16 pm

I used to have problem when usually I print PETG and switch back to PLA I get underextrusion almost everytime especially when rapid retraction happen.
I find that PLA need more extruder idler bearing tension than PETG and because I adjust it just right for PETG so PLA will slip.
Tight it more for PLA solved it.

kr15_uk
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by kr15_uk » Fri May 26, 2017 3:27 pm

In my experience E3D all metal jams are caused by:
1. Long retraction length - not a problem in your case, 1mm.
2. Too high printing temps - your temp seems pretty low but depends from the filament obviously
3. Insufficient cooling of the cold end - most common in my experience, have you changed cooling fan?! Anything obstructs airflow at the back?! Room too hot?! Printer enclosure?!
4. Assembled incorrectly - did you put that thermal paste at the cold end side?! Is it screwed tight enough but not too tight?! Tom had E3D v6 assembly video on how to do it properly. Also worth reading through line by line in E3D's wiki, maybe you've missed something. https://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_Assembly

Also have you done PID autotune?! Temp overshooting might cause this as well.

Tip of the day: Coolend temp measuring on the cheap - get one of those cheap bed thermistors, blue tape it to the lowest fin of the coolend and plug it into your boards heated connector. Obviously print with heated off when testing.

Robin
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:36 pm

Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by Robin » Sat May 27, 2017 12:27 am

I'll Second the higher tension on the extruder as a first step, PLA particularly the natural colour stuff seems to like a bit of the rough stuff :D.
From what your are saying it seems like the stepping is skipping steps this could be the cause rather than a symptom, does it jam before or after the clicking noise when skipping steps? (this may be all but impossible to tell on a direct drive, its normally very noticeable on a geared type)
Can you show a picture of your extruder teeth and also of the marks made by the teeth on the filament?

LKM
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by LKM » Sat May 27, 2017 5:16 pm

NadimMayar wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 1:38 pm
The jam sometimes fixes itself after a few skipped steps (...) when the jams doesn't fix itself, it's also nearly impossible to push the filament through manually
There are two things here:
  • When the jam happens, the extruder actually skips steps, it doesn't grind the filament
  • When the jam happens, it's extremely hard for you to push the filament through
My suspicion is that the problem likely isn't the idler tension. If the tension were too low, the extruder wouldn't skip steps, it would just grind the filament. The idler tension were too high, the extruder might skip steps, but you wouldn't have any problems pushing the filament through manually.

Like kr15_uk says, your retraction and temperatures seem fine. I think the most likely cause is a problem with cooling. Is your printer in some kind of enclosure, or is your room temperature particularly high? When you say "the heatsink never gets hot during the print", how warm does it get? Noticeably above room temperature?

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NadimMayar
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Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by NadimMayar » Mon May 29, 2017 8:40 am

LKM wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:16 pm
NadimMayar wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 1:38 pm
The jam sometimes fixes itself after a few skipped steps (...) when the jams doesn't fix itself, it's also nearly impossible to push the filament through manually
There are two things here:
  • When the jam happens, the extruder actually skips steps, it doesn't grind the filament
  • When the jam happens, it's extremely hard for you to push the filament through
My suspicion is that the problem likely isn't the idler tension. If the tension were too low, the extruder wouldn't skip steps, it would just grind the filament. The idler tension were too high, the extruder might skip steps, but you wouldn't have any problems pushing the filament through manually.

Like kr15_uk says, your retraction and temperatures seem fine. I think the most likely cause is a problem with cooling. Is your printer in some kind of enclosure, or is your room temperature particularly high? When you say "the heatsink never gets hot during the print", how warm does it get? Noticeably above room temperature?
My printer is not enclosed and the room temp is 20C.

Yes, it does feel warmer to the touch than room temp, but colder that the extruder stepper motors which I measured to be around 40 C with an infrared temperature meter. I can't get an accurate reading of the heatsink because of its shininess and complex shape. I do have some spare thermistors so I'm gonna measure the heatsink temp like kr15_uk suggested this week.

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NadimMayar
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Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by NadimMayar » Mon May 29, 2017 8:41 am

Robin wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 12:27 am

Can you show a picture of your extruder teeth and also of the marks made by the teeth on the filament?
I will do that when I'm home today.

kleingeist
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 11:51 am

Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by kleingeist » Tue May 30, 2017 9:39 am

I had similiar problems with the V6 for a while. I tried pretty much everything, cooling, temp adjust, retract settings...
I heard that not all V6 hotends have the best surface finish but it seems a tiny amount of teflon oil has fixed it. I know it can harm the layer bonding strength but I diddn´t had any problems so far with that route.

Might work as a last chance.

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NadimMayar
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 1:16 pm

Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by NadimMayar » Tue May 30, 2017 1:05 pm

kleingeist wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 9:39 am
I had similiar problems with the V6 for a while. I tried pretty much everything, cooling, temp adjust, retract settings...
I heard that not all V6 hotends have the best surface finish but it seems a tiny amount of teflon oil has fixed it. I know it can harm the layer bonding strength but I diddn´t had any problems so far with that route.

Might work as a last chance.
I just ordered a new heatbreak and nozzle. New heatbreak probably fixes it if the issue is surface finish.

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NadimMayar
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 1:16 pm

Re: Installed E3D on my wanhao, but it jams occassionally

Post by NadimMayar » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:53 am

Update:

So I received my new heat break and 0.5mm nozzle that I had ordered. I installed the new heat break and the nozzle and it seems to work fine after a couple of prints that gave me issues previously.

So I guess there was some issue with the old heat break.

Also the reason why I opted for a 0.5mm nozzle is because small details aren't important for the type of models I am printing and I wanted to speed the prints up a bit.

How much faster would a 0.5mm nozzle be with pla and petg compared to 0.4mm nozzle? Is it necessary to use a higher temp for the 0.5mm nozzle because of the higher flow rate, or is that negligible?

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