PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

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TRoager
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 6:11 pm

PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by TRoager » Wed May 24, 2017 6:32 pm

Hi All

So i've experienced some weird issues.

First of all, i have this 3D Printer, Custom designed with an Titan Aero. TMC 2208 drivers and Re-Arms from Panucatt Devices. 230 Silicone Heatbed with PrintBite from 3dMutley.

So Basically i've got a solid printer and seems to printing very well for the most part, but 2 issues here.

1.
I have some bed layer adhesion issues, my PLA is warping on the corners and i got no idea why.

Print settings:
195 Hotend
70 Bed
1.0 Multiplier
0.4 Hardened Nozzle
0.2 Layer Height
100% First Layer height
108% First Layer Width
40% Print Fan

I've tried to increase or lower the temperature of the bed from 55 to 75 and no difference.
Also Tried to decrease and increase layer heights as well as the first layer width for 95 to 108%
Also added a skirt, this helps alittle but not much.

So the issue is that everything looks very good but in the corners the print will sometime warp.


https://goo.gl/photos/ejUNtxbyd7m1KPTi7

This is how the first layer looks when the print is of the bed.

2.
I seem to have a problem with the filament having bad layer adhesion. It seems to look like its over extrusion right now but thats its a attempt to make the bonding better.
Same print settings as above, only thing here is that ive tried the same issues as above but also the Extrusion multiplier from 0.9 to 1.0 (Print looks better at 0.9 and give almost the same layer bonding as the ones with 1.0 (still better at 1.0 but ugly prints :) )

See pictures below:

From the side (Abit wavy)
https://goo.gl/photos/NbNNCDVD5RHbv5iQ8

From the top:
https://goo.gl/photos/C2A4zQBnmm5MnR3UA

From the bottom(same image as issue 1):
https://goo.gl/photos/N2DJZ5y8sze4iaNx7

From the side:
https://goo.gl/photos/v7zZJLCshaSzAehp6

From the top /side:
https://goo.gl/photos/NviLqovhdoUxHsaK9

bottom that got peeled off with my fingers:
https://goo.gl/photos/S278f2wf6qQiyr7P9


Please help, im almost desperate right now :p

Filament:
https://goo.gl/photos/gBPojfVGgTmCycNG9

Bought from 3Deksperten.dk Silky Gold 1.75
Looks very nice.

Printer:
https://goo.gl/photos/1x3n6XaVnon71Y1S6

Printer running(Movie):
https://goo.gl/photos/ZVf8NPToYtxzpkhR9

Other Finished prints (seems to be beautiful prints, i know bad color):
https://goo.gl/photos/VH9NCnpTwwHzSgCZ7
https://goo.gl/photos/jWoX5KMpFFNFmVre7



Sorry about all the links but the files were too big to upload and i hope i can get help anyway :) !

Thanks everyone :)

JustinF
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:25 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by JustinF » Wed May 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Just curious why would you run the print fan at 40%? I always run mine at 100% after the first layer. Does 40% work better than 100%?
Last edited by JustinF on Wed May 24, 2017 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TRoager
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 6:11 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by TRoager » Wed May 24, 2017 8:27 pm

JustinF wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 8:24 pm
Just curious why would you run the print fan 40%? I always run mine at 100% after the first layer. Does 40% work better than 100%?
Well mostly to try to get better bonding between the layers but didnt work. i have a blower fan and if i run it at 100% it gets even worse on the bonding :/

JustinF
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:25 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by JustinF » Wed May 24, 2017 8:29 pm

I'm just curious did you built yours from scratch too? I had first layer adhesion issues but slowing it down to 20mm/s fixed the problem for me. I'm not sure if slowing it down would help your problem too but it's worth a try I guess.

TRoager
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 6:11 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by TRoager » Wed May 24, 2017 8:39 pm

JustinF wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 8:29 pm
I'm just curious did you built yours from scratch too? I had first layer adhesion issues but slowing it down to 20mm/s fixed the problem for me. I'm not sure if slowing it down would help your problem too but it's worth a try I guess.
Well im running it at 40mm/s and i think thats too slow but maybe i could try 20mm/s instead.

Yes i build mine from scratch , sort of the ultimaker2 aluminum , but everything is custom designed and made out of aluminum, no plastik parts not even for the endstops.

LKM
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by LKM » Wed May 24, 2017 9:21 pm

Have you tried printing with other filament, and did you have the same problems?

Generally, I think the kind of poor layer adhesion you're seeing might be due to low print temperature. 195° is at the low end for PLA, and maybe your hotend is cooler than the firmware reads (printers can easily be off 10 or 20 degrees from the reported temperature), so I'd try going to 215°, and seeing if that helps.

If not, my second guess would be that something with the filament is off, although this doesn't usually happen nowadays.

TRoager
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 6:11 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by TRoager » Wed May 24, 2017 9:56 pm

LKM wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 9:21 pm
Have you tried printing with other filament, and did you have the same problems?

Generally, I think the kind of poor layer adhesion you're seeing might be due to low print temperature. 195° is at the low end for PLA, and maybe your hotend is cooler than the firmware reads (printers can easily be off 10 or 20 degrees from the reported temperature), so I'd try going to 215°, and seeing if that helps.

If not, my second guess would be that something with the filament is off, although this doesn't usually happen nowadays.
I was also thinking the Temp but i have increased this to 210 and the filament began to pop (make those popping sounds so i guess that is because the temp is a bit too high)

Regarding the filament yes could be the filament but as you say yourself doesn't happen nowadays.

I did try some other branded(ESUN) PLA and it seemed better but still a little poor layer bonding for mig taste.

Maybe i should try and buy some Colorfabb or very known PLA and do some test prints to see bonding. But i have to wait for that to arrive.

Good suggestion about the temp. I hope there are more suggestions :/

LKM
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by LKM » Wed May 24, 2017 10:27 pm

If your filament starts popping at 210, that does sound like there's something wrong with the filament. I've never seen PLA do that at 210. It almost sounds as if your filament has absorbed too much moisture. What's your room's humidity, and how do you store your filament?

TRoager
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 6:11 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by TRoager » Wed May 24, 2017 10:47 pm

LKM wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 10:27 pm
If your filament starts popping at 210, that does sound like there's something wrong with the filament. I've never seen PLA do that at 210. It almost sounds as if your filament has absorbed too much moisture. What's your room's humidity, and how do you store your filament?
The filament is not popping like crazy but just once in a while and it's noticeable on the print.

Well i store it in my closet and the humidity states 70 on the web.

You think it's necessary to store it with silica gel ?

LKM
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: PLA Filament very brittle / bad layer bonding

Post by LKM » Wed May 24, 2017 11:31 pm

70% is a bit high for filament storage, I think. If newly opened filament prints well, this is probably your issue. If so, you should store the filament in a drybox, or protect it in some other way.

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